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Are you a BAKER? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2804	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Dave-SKG [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:28 am ]
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Just got an email from someone who said Taylor, Collins, Frank Ford, Cumpiano and several other notables are BAKING their TOPS. Now here in Florida that could mean something different ! But these guys are baking their guitar tops at 200 degrees for an hour...others 180 degrees for up to three hours. According to the pros this shrinks the tops, pre-ages them some, and helps protect the top against the high heat of being left in a car(WOA!). Anybody here doing this? Your comments would be greatly buttered...basted...a...appreciated!

Author:	Don Williams [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:31 am ]
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I prefer to grill them. I use gas because it's convenient, but charcoal flavors it better.

Author:	LanceK [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:36 am ]
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Dave - I got the same email - oddly enough, I was told to do this to tops and more specifically coco back and side sets prior to using about 3 or 4 years ago. So although the "NewsFlash" would like us all think its some new trick, its been around a while And no, I haven't done it.

Author:	Colin S [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:15 am ]
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This has been discussed a number of times on the forum. Ckeck the archives "cooking your tops in the oven". I think that Mario is our tame expert on it (no surprise there then! ) All knowledge is here! Colin

Author:	WalterK [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:21 am ]
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Why Bake?? Just send me your tops and body parts and in this desert dry climate of Las Vegas Your wood will be DRY in no time. I won't charge very much!! Walter

Author:	Mario [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:11 am ]
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Old news....

Author:	Brian Hawkins [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:14 am ]
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I got that same email.......which reminded me of someone who took the advise from that same source and because he was new to building didn't recieve enough instruction. He showed up at my place with a top from an LMI kit (already joined and with a rosette) that he had baked in his oven...not a pretty sight...I really felt for the guy enough to direct him to this forum where he could get more complete and sound advise.

Author:	jfrench [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:28 am ]
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Another vote for grilling here!

Author:	Michael McBroom [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:48 am ]
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Harry Fleischman was experimenting with baking tops early last year, which is the first I had heard of it. Brian Burns has done some acoustic testing on baked tops, and the results seem to be encouraging. I've baked a few sets. Typically, I've gotten a few small areas where some resin has boiled out. So far, I've built only one guitar with a baked top -- spruce. It has a nice sound, but I don't really have anything equivalent to compare it to. Best, Michael

Author:	Dale M [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:40 am ]
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I had one I baked in the back of my truck. A 00( pics posted at the bottom of photos failure topic) was in the back of my truck when I had a heart attack in Colorado. After sitting in the truck for a couple of weeks in 100+ temps while they did a triple bypass on me the top joint split in the lower bout! Didn`t hurt the sound so I left it alone. Still my favorite guitar.

Author:	tippie53 [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:48 am ]
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I do heat my tops and backs but I use a large heating blanket. My process is more to get the excess water out and to flatten them. I heat them to 225 for 10 minutes . Too long and you make the wood too dry. Wood is thermoplastic and this helps in the humid conditions of PA to make the back and top plates more stable. john hall DO NOT AD WATER !

Author:	Dickey [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:52 pm ]
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I read that email too. Funny, one guy was trying to cook in billet chunk form, before sawing into tops.... Never done this myself. I remember reading luthiers who would never, I mean never, use kiln dried materials for their guitars. Isn't cooking a top in an oven kiln-drying wood? Just a thought. I have heard that you can ruin wood in a kiln though, same is probably true of an oven.

Author:	Sylvan [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:00 pm ]
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I have been baking my tops at 200 degrees for one hour for several years now. It is not new news. My experience with baking leads me to believe that it helps. My guitars seem to sound much better with tops that have been baked when they are first strung up. So I continue to do it.

Author:	RCoates [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:51 pm ]
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Funny I've been thinking this for a while now... I bake my tops! First at between 90 and 100 degrees for about three weeks straight. Then 100 to 120 degrees for about 3 weeks. Then again 90 to 100 for about three weeks. All at low RH. That is roughly the summer in my "shop" (garage). Now the wood in storage has gone through this cycle several times. I can see it now. An advertising campaign that says, " My wood is aged for years and slowly baked for weeks each year until it reaches just the right point". " I will use no wood before it's time."

Author:	Dave-SKG [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:10 am ]
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[QUOTE=Sylvan] I have been baking my tops at 200 degrees for one hour for several years now. It is not new news. My experience with baking leads me to believe that it helps. My guitars seem to sound much better with tops that have been baked when they are first strung up. So I continue to do it.[/QUOTE] I thought I remembered you telling me this when I visited. There was just so much to learn so quickly. THANKS AGAIN my friend! I am going to try it...

Author:	Tim McKnight [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:50 am ]
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I have nere baked any tops but I will share this: I have some Sitka that was stored in an attic for 45 years! It is the best Sitka that I have ever used. It's extremely light and stiff but I can't attribute any one factor to it's credit. The spruce all varies in LPI, density and coloration but it all seems to be equally good.

Author:	bob J [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:51 pm ]
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Do the 'Bakers' here also bake B/S, if so how hot, how long?

Author:	Jason [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:47 am ]
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[QUOTE=Dickey] I read that email too. Funny, one guy was trying to cook in billet chunk form, before sawing into tops.... Never done this myself. I remember reading luthiers who would never, I mean never, use kiln dried materials for their guitars. Isn't cooking a top in an oven kiln-drying wood? Just a thought. I have heard that you can ruin wood in a kiln though, same is probably true of an oven.[/QUOTE] I think the difference is that it's being cooked at an almost finished thickness. Kiln dried woods are generally case hardened which is fine for furniture but once you start cutting sets off of them the outter sets are a mess when they start cupping/twisting. I don't know about the rest of the guys doing it but as I said before, the guys at Taylor do it and swear by it for stability so thats all the endorsement I'd need The sound thing I know nothing about but Sylvan and quite a few others say it helps and he knows his stuff The idea that they are "setting the pitch" so the tone should improve with the crystalized sap instead of "soft sap" is well questionable. You shouldn't be falling spruce (or any tonewood) while the sap is running.. Theres a small window every summer where your better off to just kick back, pull out the barbeque and enjoy the weather if you don't have enough wood put away to keep you busy for a month. Hey BobJ if your going to cook your tops why not do your B&S as well, I'm sure it helps for some of the same reasons. Taylor cooks their B&S.Jason38578.8698842593

Author:	Shane Neifer [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:35 pm ]
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There was a long discussion on this on the mimf forum. Brian Burns and Mario had a couple week long discussion on this topic....eminating from the same likely character. Brian took one half of a few sets and baked them and then compared them to the other 'unbaked halves'. The results, structurally, were not surprising. Lighter, a bit stiffer, etc. Mario commented that although he bakes he does it to 'pre-stress' the wood and not necassarily for sound. I know that Cumpiano was asked to bake a set and see what he thought and that he did that and thought the results were OK. When I was at his shop earlier this year to talk about top wood, he gave no indication that this was his usual practice now. But things can change. Still, musical instruments are quite magical and every fine instrument is the sum of all of it's parts and the relationship between them. Older instruments, IMHO, sound so great because the parts have 'harmonized' with each other, thats all of the parts, the neck, the heel block, braces, kerfings, purflings, bridges, fret boards, everything! Most of the other parts of a guitar are quite small, but remeber that the neck has almost twice as many cubic inches as that top, why not KD it as well? BUT, if you want to hurry the magic please remember after you bake your top (and backs and sides), put them aside in your shop for a good month before you use them. Baking brings them down to near zero moisture content and when they start to take on atmospheric humidity again that could cause you problems if they are now part of guitar box with parts that have already reached equilibrium with their environment. As Brian said earlier, before you bake make sure you have all of the information to ensure a successful operation. ShaneShane Neifer38580.117037037

Author:	Sprockett [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:37 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Sylvan] I have been baking my tops at 200 degrees for one hour for several years now. It is not new news. My experience with baking leads me to believe that it helps. My guitars seem to sound much better with tops that have been baked when they are first strung up. So I continue to do it.[/QUOTE] So Sylvan can you share how you do it?? It's on my list of things to start tinkering with... Cheers -Paul-

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